Thank you Liz and Griffin for sharing your stories. Stories help people feel, in a way that data and numbers can't. I appreciate you also bringing up the question of whether to stay and try to effect change or follow a path that you're confident is better for your child. I made a similar choice as you, when I left the US (and my academic position) after a six-month period during which my children had three school lockdowns due to gunfire in the neighborhood. Although I carry a bit of guilt, it was completely the right decision for my family. There are other ways to fight for a better world, including making donations and sharing stories. I'm looking forward to part 2!
Thank you for sharing YOUR story! Moving to another country is a much bigger deal than to another state. How do you feel about your career? You’ve had to chart an entirely new course, just as I’m trying to do.
Great question, and quite relevant to the broader topic of your substack! The thing I miss the most about being a professor is the autonomy. I know it's not total, but I really miss being able to see a problem or opportunity and address it in the best way I can based on my knowledge, expertise, and experience.
I guess a way to maintain that autonomy after unprofessoring would be to create an independent income stream, but with three pre-colleage-aged kids I felt the need for a regular paycheck. However, even the regular paycheck isn't what I used to make, I took a nearly 50% pay cut from full professor to staff member at a non-profit. On the positive side, I have been able to make contributions to my discipline, stay engaged with it, and continue to support early-career scientists, three things I was hoping to do post-professorship.
Hopefully these frank and open conversations will be helpful to those considering various career options, thanks for initiating this substack.
The post-academic job search isn't (or at least, it hasn't been for me) the easy path that you see on Twitter. Maybe it's easier for young people, but I have been looking for a job for a year now.
I've been wondering about this, Liz, but didn't want to pry. I've not yet applied to anything, because that was not part of our original understanding for this move. But I'm now beginning to look at communications and managerial positions. I think ageism is an enormous obstacle.
I'm glad you haven't asked because it's been beyond demoralizing. I really painted myself into a corner. And I don't find academia-adjacent jobs any more egalitarian or meritocracy-based than those in academia--it's still just as much about networking.
I'm choosing not to "like" this comment, because it sucks. And it's the heart of what I wrote recently about the work self and the whole self. What I find so difficult about the LinkedIn world is that it is such a bright-sided place. Very Dale Carnegie. I do see people posting "Help me, I'm looking for work" things and getting a very compassionate response. But there is also a lot of forced optimism and a fake-it-til-you-make-it vibe. I really wonder how many people are actually happy in their roles? If I understand their roles correctly, it's even more mystifying.
Not to be too much of a downer about this, but we just went to Hershey Park for my eldest's birthday, and I've been thinking about a post about it. You pay a crazy amount to get in. Then you realize that the wait for a ride is 45-60 min. So they'll sell you a "Fast Track" ticket for $100 more that lets you jump the line. But then you're still waiting 20 minutes. There's only so much time in the day, so the ROI on those tickets is demonstrably not worth it. But everyone is there ostensibly to have fun, and so you pay what you must. That image of people coming to a place that presents itself as a kind of paradise, but just ruthlessly exploits everyone, seems like a perfect metaphor for industry to me. And that's not even mentioning the two (TWO!) enormous gift shops that sell overpriced toys that will last maybe a week. I don't know, maybe people actually really want to wear Hershey's pajama bottoms? It seems to me like branding gone wild, the most obscene place imaginable.
I'm sorry to hear that, but also amazed. It's hard to imagine what people are looking for if you're not getting offers. I wonder if the style people use in LinkedIn as referenced by Joshua is really what employers are looking for. In my experience hiring faculty, we looked for a true and sincere voice - maybe that doesn't fly out in the wider world (snark).
Totally agree about the autonomy. It's one of the big reasons why we all said no to the typical path into industry to begin with. We didn't want to answer to a boss, and we wanted to embrace the responsibility that comes with autonomy in our own way.
While I do not have a lovely little family like yours Liz, I do recognize these feelings of guilt for choosing myself. Prioritizing My mental health, my self care needs, my feelings as valid and as important as the needs of the bigger institution/society I serve. I think it’s ok (and important) to prioritize what’s best for your family. I do not think your actions have a negative effect overall because just by surviving in these uncertain times every ‘happy kiddo’ is making it easier for the next trans youth to exist. I hope you feel proud of choosing your family, always.
I’d been following your pieces and wondered about the decision to leave a tenured position. I was born in Missouri, left for a long time (to be an academic), and returned early due to health reasons. Reading this piece was informative and piercing. I live in southern Missouri, far more conservative than the northern part. As a League of Women Voters member, I started attending school board meetings around the time of the CRT protests. For the last year or so a good part of public comments every week is dedicated to trans people and allies (many young) urging the board to develop a statement supporting trans students. No luck so far. But you’re right: people, almost anywhere, tend to be purple. It’s the states we have to be concerned about.
Thank you for this comment, and for attending school board meetings! You probably have enough material for a newsletter of your own, just from those meetings.
As a father of three children, and friend to a handful of parents whose children have transitioned and changed their names, I appreciate hearing your story. Your example of loving and unconditional support is inspiring.
On the questions of whether to stay or to leave, I'd like to hear a professional ethicist talk about this. What you're doing for your family is *not* akin to herd immunity (where everyone gets vaccines as much to protect everyone else as to protect themselves) or to white flight. I think it's a very difficult ethical proposition to say that one's children must suffer in order for other children to benefit. And we all have limits to how far we want to run this ethical string out: how many inventories of externalities can we sustain? In this case, your own well-being was at stake (based on what we've discussed), not just Griffin's. I, personally, can't see an ethical argument for why you should have stayed in a place that posed a threat to your health and to your child's safety. One man's opinion!
Though I do understand how our tribal mentality as a country is playing out a tragedy of the commons on many fronts. I mean, this very thing is happening within academic institutions, too. I could have stayed in my job to fight for the humanities, I guess. Outlive the bastards tearing everything down. But at what cost? And with what prospect of really making a difference? The moral clarity would have had to be much stronger for that to make any sense at all.
I don’t know. I think that, because the ability to leave is so tied to privilege and position, it’s a little like the moving school districts. But I guess there’s a difference between moving to give your kid a perceived leg up and moving to protect your kid . . .
Thank you Liz and Griffin for sharing your stories. Stories help people feel, in a way that data and numbers can't. I appreciate you also bringing up the question of whether to stay and try to effect change or follow a path that you're confident is better for your child. I made a similar choice as you, when I left the US (and my academic position) after a six-month period during which my children had three school lockdowns due to gunfire in the neighborhood. Although I carry a bit of guilt, it was completely the right decision for my family. There are other ways to fight for a better world, including making donations and sharing stories. I'm looking forward to part 2!
Thank you for sharing YOUR story! Moving to another country is a much bigger deal than to another state. How do you feel about your career? You’ve had to chart an entirely new course, just as I’m trying to do.
Great question, and quite relevant to the broader topic of your substack! The thing I miss the most about being a professor is the autonomy. I know it's not total, but I really miss being able to see a problem or opportunity and address it in the best way I can based on my knowledge, expertise, and experience.
I guess a way to maintain that autonomy after unprofessoring would be to create an independent income stream, but with three pre-colleage-aged kids I felt the need for a regular paycheck. However, even the regular paycheck isn't what I used to make, I took a nearly 50% pay cut from full professor to staff member at a non-profit. On the positive side, I have been able to make contributions to my discipline, stay engaged with it, and continue to support early-career scientists, three things I was hoping to do post-professorship.
Hopefully these frank and open conversations will be helpful to those considering various career options, thanks for initiating this substack.
The post-academic job search isn't (or at least, it hasn't been for me) the easy path that you see on Twitter. Maybe it's easier for young people, but I have been looking for a job for a year now.
I've been wondering about this, Liz, but didn't want to pry. I've not yet applied to anything, because that was not part of our original understanding for this move. But I'm now beginning to look at communications and managerial positions. I think ageism is an enormous obstacle.
I'm glad you haven't asked because it's been beyond demoralizing. I really painted myself into a corner. And I don't find academia-adjacent jobs any more egalitarian or meritocracy-based than those in academia--it's still just as much about networking.
I'm choosing not to "like" this comment, because it sucks. And it's the heart of what I wrote recently about the work self and the whole self. What I find so difficult about the LinkedIn world is that it is such a bright-sided place. Very Dale Carnegie. I do see people posting "Help me, I'm looking for work" things and getting a very compassionate response. But there is also a lot of forced optimism and a fake-it-til-you-make-it vibe. I really wonder how many people are actually happy in their roles? If I understand their roles correctly, it's even more mystifying.
Not to be too much of a downer about this, but we just went to Hershey Park for my eldest's birthday, and I've been thinking about a post about it. You pay a crazy amount to get in. Then you realize that the wait for a ride is 45-60 min. So they'll sell you a "Fast Track" ticket for $100 more that lets you jump the line. But then you're still waiting 20 minutes. There's only so much time in the day, so the ROI on those tickets is demonstrably not worth it. But everyone is there ostensibly to have fun, and so you pay what you must. That image of people coming to a place that presents itself as a kind of paradise, but just ruthlessly exploits everyone, seems like a perfect metaphor for industry to me. And that's not even mentioning the two (TWO!) enormous gift shops that sell overpriced toys that will last maybe a week. I don't know, maybe people actually really want to wear Hershey's pajama bottoms? It seems to me like branding gone wild, the most obscene place imaginable.
I'm sorry to hear that, but also amazed. It's hard to imagine what people are looking for if you're not getting offers. I wonder if the style people use in LinkedIn as referenced by Joshua is really what employers are looking for. In my experience hiring faculty, we looked for a true and sincere voice - maybe that doesn't fly out in the wider world (snark).
You are not alone in your surprise, but it’s true. Stories for another day, I guess.
Totally agree about the autonomy. It's one of the big reasons why we all said no to the typical path into industry to begin with. We didn't want to answer to a boss, and we wanted to embrace the responsibility that comes with autonomy in our own way.
While I do not have a lovely little family like yours Liz, I do recognize these feelings of guilt for choosing myself. Prioritizing My mental health, my self care needs, my feelings as valid and as important as the needs of the bigger institution/society I serve. I think it’s ok (and important) to prioritize what’s best for your family. I do not think your actions have a negative effect overall because just by surviving in these uncertain times every ‘happy kiddo’ is making it easier for the next trans youth to exist. I hope you feel proud of choosing your family, always.
Oh, thank you, Sonali! I do feel proud in a way, because I really never did that. I always chose science first. So it's kind of a new feeling . . .!!
I’d been following your pieces and wondered about the decision to leave a tenured position. I was born in Missouri, left for a long time (to be an academic), and returned early due to health reasons. Reading this piece was informative and piercing. I live in southern Missouri, far more conservative than the northern part. As a League of Women Voters member, I started attending school board meetings around the time of the CRT protests. For the last year or so a good part of public comments every week is dedicated to trans people and allies (many young) urging the board to develop a statement supporting trans students. No luck so far. But you’re right: people, almost anywhere, tend to be purple. It’s the states we have to be concerned about.
Thank you for this comment, and for attending school board meetings! You probably have enough material for a newsletter of your own, just from those meetings.
As a father of three children, and friend to a handful of parents whose children have transitioned and changed their names, I appreciate hearing your story. Your example of loving and unconditional support is inspiring.
On the questions of whether to stay or to leave, I'd like to hear a professional ethicist talk about this. What you're doing for your family is *not* akin to herd immunity (where everyone gets vaccines as much to protect everyone else as to protect themselves) or to white flight. I think it's a very difficult ethical proposition to say that one's children must suffer in order for other children to benefit. And we all have limits to how far we want to run this ethical string out: how many inventories of externalities can we sustain? In this case, your own well-being was at stake (based on what we've discussed), not just Griffin's. I, personally, can't see an ethical argument for why you should have stayed in a place that posed a threat to your health and to your child's safety. One man's opinion!
Though I do understand how our tribal mentality as a country is playing out a tragedy of the commons on many fronts. I mean, this very thing is happening within academic institutions, too. I could have stayed in my job to fight for the humanities, I guess. Outlive the bastards tearing everything down. But at what cost? And with what prospect of really making a difference? The moral clarity would have had to be much stronger for that to make any sense at all.
I don’t know. I think that, because the ability to leave is so tied to privilege and position, it’s a little like the moving school districts. But I guess there’s a difference between moving to give your kid a perceived leg up and moving to protect your kid . . .
Love you all and so happy you are here, but appreciate (and of course am not surprised by) your macro-level consideration in your decision making.
Being close to family has been one of the great joys of this move. The way that academia makes you deprioritize family is one of the worst parts.
Thank you. I haven't meant to be coy, but it really is so complicated. I'm proud of him for agreeing to let me write about it.